Conversations With Guru’s

Written by Paul Piotrowski - Wednesday, April 8th, 2009

I used to read a lot of books by guru’s in all different areas of life. Typically when you pickup a book by a certain Guru, within a few chapters you get a sense of the beliefs and values of that guru and that makes it a lot easier to understand what they are communicating.

Lately, I’ve been attracting more personal relationships with people who are “guru’s” in their respective fields in life, and I’ve been finding it rather fascinating to throw around ideas with them. However, one thing I came to quickly realize is that it is very important to first get a good feel for the values and beliefs of the person you are talking to, otherwise it makes it very difficult to have a meaningful conversation.

This is especially true for people who are more “awakened” than the average person, because their beliefs are usually a lot more diverse than the average person you’ll meet on the street.

The Concept of Money

One thing I’ve found fascinating is just how diverse people’s ideas are around money. When trying to have a conversation with someone relating to money, if you first don’t understand their beliefs it makes it very hard to hold any kind of meaningful conversation.

Let me give you some examples.

BELIEF: “We must provide value in order to have money in our lives.”

Some people believe that we have to provide value in order to have money in life. Typically people who believe this will point out the fact that most lottery winners end up being broke in a few years because they didn’t really provide any value to deserve that money.

If you’re speaking to someone who has this type of belief, and you mention a new business idea you may have that will allow you to make a lot of money without a lot of work, they will typically dismiss the idea as stupid because they believe that any way a person makes money without providing value is never going to work.

Here’s another one:

BELIEF: “We must give money away to attract money. Charity is the key to wealth.”

Some people believe that the only way to attract more money is to give more money away. These people typically believe in tithing and give away 10% or more of their money to their church or a charity of some sort.

These types of people often believe that the most honorable thing we could do in life is to give to charity. They’ll participate in all kinds of fundraisers, charitable causes, and they’ll always donate a portion of their earnings to a worthy cause.

Here’s another one:

BELIEF: “We live in a pre-determined universe.”

It’s always fun to have a conversation with someone who lives with this belief. Whenever you mention some kind of challenge you’re going through, they’ll always say something like “Oh don’t worry, everything will work out.”

These people believe that we don’t really have any free will in life, and that the “Universe” organizes everything so the only thing we can really do is to just “go along with it” instead of “fighting it”. They believe stress in life only happens because we try to fight against the universal force that has everything planned out for us – whether that force be called God, the Universe, Source or whatever name they call it.

Sometimes when I’m talking with someone who owns this belief, and I am discussing a challenge with them and they say “Just stop worrying, it’s all supposed to happen this way exactly.” I’ll say to them “What if I’m supposed to worry? If everything is predetermined than me worrying must be predetermined as well so I obviously have no choice.”

They’ll typically say something like “No, you have a choice to worry or not. That’s not predetermined.” This of course kind of nullifies their own beliefs about predetermination, but there’s no point in arguing.

BELIEF: “Law of Attraction only works if we take action.”

Typically people who believe this are very action oriented. They don’t really value getting their thinking straight or their beliefs and intentions figured out. They’re too busy taking action to worry about silly things like that. Their motto is “Massive Action!”

A lot of our society is programmed to think this way. When talking to people like this, I will often ask them about their specific goals or intentions and they don’t really know them. They know what action steps they need to take next, but most of the time they have no clue where those action steps are taking them.

Having Meaningful Conversations

These are just four beliefs I mentioned, out of hundreds or thousands people may have about money. Now, let’s take the concept of Helene Hadsell – the older lady I mentioned yesterday who has been using the Law of Attraction for the last 50 years to win contests.

Imagine talking to someone about this lady who has the belief that “You must provide value in life to have money.” A person with this belief will have a really hard time accepting that it’s possible to attract money in life by entering and winning contests. They’ll dismiss the idea as stupid because even if it was possible to win the contests, you’ll end up losing anything you win because you haven’t provided any value.

What about the person who believes that “Law of Attraction only works if we take action.”? How would that person judge the Helene Hadsell concept? Probably not very favorably, right?

If you’re talking to a person who believes that we must give money away to charity in order to get more, they’ll probably ask “Did she donate any of her money to Charity?” If you tell them “Yes, she has given away a lot of money to her Church.” they’ll probably get excited. If you say “No, she doesn’t believe in Charity” they’ll probably label her as a fraud.

It’s very interesting to see how people judge and discuss things based on their own beliefs. To have a meaningful conversation with someone it’s important to know what their values are and what their beliefs are so that you can communicate with them in their language.

A lot of people’s identities revolve around their beliefs, and so they cling onto their beliefs very strongly because their whole identity revolves around them. If you say something that challenges their beliefs, they get really defensive because it is as if you are attacking their identity.

It takes a lot of maturity to get to the point where you realize that you are not your beliefs, and that it is ok for someone else to have beliefs different from yours. It’s a much easier way to go through life, because almost everyone you meet in life is going to have different beliefs. If the only way you can have a meaningful conversation with someone is if they believe everything you believe, you’re not going to have many friends and you’re not going to be able to learn a lot from people of different diverse backgrounds.

Now more than ever when I get around people I try to establish what their beliefs and values are first. Ignoring the other person’s beliefs and values is a recipe for disaster if you’re trying to have an effective and meaningful conversation. In fact, if you look into your past and think about the last argument you had with someone, I would be willing to bet that the source of your argument was simply that the person you were arguing with had a totally different set of beliefs and values.

If you learn to ask questions, you can really learn a lot about people.

Here’s a strat
egy I’ve been trying out lately:

Ask questions and try to understand the beliefs and values of the person you are talking to.
Regardless whether I truly believe or value the same things, I approach them from the point of view of believing and valuing the same things they do.
Have a meaningful conversation, and learn from their unique point of view.
Re-assess my beliefs and see if there is anything I’ve learned during the conversation that may require me to change some of my beliefs.

So for example, if I was talking to someone about Helene Hadsell and the person I was talking to believed very strongly in charity and donating to their church, I might be able to approach them by saying “Imagine if you could use the Law of Attraction to win contests and prizes and then donate them or a portion of them to your Church. Is that something that might interest you?” This would probably resonate with them a lot more than if I said “If I could show you a way to sit at home on the couch, and win contests and prizes with minimal effort while everyone around you is stuck in the rat-race of working from home, would you be interested?”

It’s all about beliefs and values. Not your beliefs and values – THEIR beliefs and values.

Do you know what your beliefs and values are?

Do you know what our spouses beliefs and values are?

Do you know what your kids beliefs and values are?

Do you know what beliefs and values your kids teachers have?

Do you know what beliefs and values your customers have?

Even if just for a moment, as an experiment…try adopting the beliefs and values of the person you are talking with, and you might just find that you have one of the most meaningful conversations you’ve ever had with a person.

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Comments:

Bud Hennekes says:

April 9, 2009 at 1:35 am

It’s very interesting to see how people judge and discuss things based on their own beliefs. To have a meaningful conversation with someone it’s important to know what their values are and what their beliefs are so that you can communicate with them in their language.

^ so true!

I have been attracting more meaningful conversations into my life lately and love I particularly enjoy conversations about spirituality.

I wrote a similar article entitled the power of conversation

http://www.aboundlessworld.com/the-power-of-conversation/

Thanks Paul for your thought-provoking post

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Nicholas Powiull says:

April 9, 2009 at 6:56 am

In my experience what you believe is what you will experience because you are ignorant to seeing any other opportunities that do not fit in that belief box.

What if someone dropped every belief they had about life, what would life become then?

What if we payed no attention to our thoughts as anything significant (re-patterned thoughts seem to be the cause of beliefs)? What if we stopped energizing out thoughts?

What would remain if all thoughts were seen as nothing but a passing cloud of utterances and noise that don’t matter (drop the label of thoughts, drop all the words and all thoughts becomes nothing but voiceless noises that make no sense, just utterances)?

My point is, that this life is a mystery and nobody has the answers to it, but we all think we do. We call this a body and that a chair, but those are just labels to make a feel better. What if we dropped all the labels? We wouldn’t know what the hell things are, in fact we don’t know anyhow. That chair could have been called ‘elfamanic’ and we would be comfortable with that word. Words/thoughts/labels/beliefs/concepts..etc they are there to make us so comfortable and feel as if we know something about this life….

What happens when we drop it all and start fresh and new, from an innocent perspective with no assumptions?

If we did that, the biggest question of all would arise and it’s not: ‘What is life?’, that is secondary. The biggest question of all: Who Am I? If we were to innocently look at who we are without the role: mom, husband, teacher, cab driver, christian, etc.. You would still be here rather those names/roles existed referring to you or not.

Most people think they are this little person in the head that is connected to the 5 senses. They think they are that body looking out the eyes and behind the eyes is who they are, but how can that be? The eyes are stimulus response to the brain. Maybe we are the brain? But how could that be, there is nothing inside the brain, the whole system of the brain is stimulus in response. Who the hell are you? Where is your location? Is it in the body?

I think if people investigate this by dropping all beliefs, they will find out that they are not who they were programmed to belief they are. There doesn’t seem to be anybody there running that machine we call a body. What the hell are we? What the hell are we doing? Is there really anything to be done?

If we get rid of the belief in the label: ‘empty-space’, it all becomes connected. If we get rid of the idea that there is someone inside this body thing, it all becomes pure awareness of what is. Then what is seen is that this awareness doesn’t move, it can’t move because everywhere the body seemly walks, it’s still there. It’s like a watching a movie screen and you see your legs moving as the images/appearances on the screen change. However the legs are not moving on the movie screen but the images are just changing. It seems like we are walking because it we feel the legs moving across the floor but feelings come and go and change just like the moving images on a movie screen. This awareness seems to just be sitting there doing nothing be being aware of the changing movie screen.

I don’t believe this is the case, but it’s my experience once I dropped all beliefs. Oneness is not a concept, it’s what is seen/experienced when all concepts are dropped.

Just something to ponder…

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matt says:

April 11, 2009 at 12:23 pm

It’s all a relative sense of perception. But isn’t perception coming from learned prejudices that are ingrained from past experiences, which some may say are just illusions any way? If so than those experiences never really happened, because there isn’t an actual “I” or a “we” to experience an experience. I think Nicolas makes some good points about awareness……..If it existed. What was said about the concept of money and this law of attraction I kinda follow but don’t know from personal experience. I’m still broke despite my efforts,dreams and thoughts of being financially independent and free (could it be my Karma?). But The rest of my life I’m fulfilled and happy. Would be nice to know the bills would always be paid and maybe travel more often though. When it comes to charity hell yea I give what and when I can if I can. As far as a predetermined universe…maybe. There’s alot I don’t understand, but I’m trying, and more I dont know but as relative or definite as one may believe things to be, I do believe that every moment is perfect. Great post! Get people thinking, questioning and investigating.

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Desk Coder says:

April 13, 2009 at 5:37 am

Wow, you are way off in your thinking of tithing and giving money to your church. God only gives us what He knows we need, there is no belief that if I give money to God, he will give me back more money. He gives us back much more important things, like eternal life.

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Paul Piotrowski says:

April 13, 2009 at 9:02 am

@Desk Coder: LOL. I never said I believe any of the things I wrote above, or that I don’t believe them. I just gave examples of certain beliefs that people may have when talking to them.

If I was having a conversation with you, and I really wanted to connect and understand your point of view, I would have to see things from your set of values and beliefs. Obviously one of those would be:

“God only gives us what He knows we need, there is no belief that if I give money to God, he will give me back more money. He gives us back much more important things, like eternal life.”

I can also discern from your beliefs that you believe in God and Eternal life, and most probably tithing. That’s cool, those are your beliefs.

Now, can you see if you were speaking to someone that is an atheist, doesn’t believe in eternal life or giving any money to church or charity, you’d probably have a hard time communicating if you were hard and rigid with your beliefs?

Meaning, if you try to project YOUR values and beliefs onto other people, you are met with resistance and it makes it hard to communicate.

-Paul

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matt says:

April 14, 2009 at 5:23 am

Paul, your last sentence, “Meaning, if you try to project YOUR values and beliefs onto other people, you are met with resistance and it makes it hard to communicate”. It would be nice if every one was mindful of that fact on a regular basis. It appears to me that projected values on others is one of the basis for so much war, hatred and other not nice things that have occurred through out history and that still cause problems today. I would like to believe that every one would agree that if we made more efforts in seeing the similarities we all share instead on focusing on the differences, this world would be better off. I think that to a larger extent everyone believes in the same thing (peace, love, happiness, freedom, even maybe what one calls a god)but identifies with different terminology and or rituals. That may come across as a rather elementary statement or point of view to some but I guess since I have thought that way since elementary school it is understandable……Peeaace!

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Thomas W says:

April 15, 2009 at 11:24 pm

@Paul: I believe Helene Hadsell is valuable to contest creators because a percentage of her connections is referred back to them and this creates exposure. In her case I believe the percentage is relatively high. btw, I have a relative who does exactly the same thing. But I don’t believe I could do it myself

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Ace Andres says:

April 16, 2009 at 12:01 pm

Just a comment on the charity thing. I’ve heard many popular business speakers as well as Icons like Tony Robbins preach about giving away or giving back to charity a portion of what you earn or recieve.

But I think it was best explained by one of the “Secret” talking heads that said: ” If you create a void in the universe; the universe will refill it and then some”. And of course the Bible teaches that what we sow, we shall reap 10 fold.

I believe this is a principal that works. I also heard a complementing definition of greed the other day. Someone said that greed is not the wanting of more and more money, rather it is the holding on to the money you have and refusing to reinvest it to create more money.

His principal was: “Money only has value if you use it”. If you stick it between your mattres, it becomes “Paper”. If you put it to work in a T-Bill, it has value. etc…. You get the Idea.

Not saying these are my beliefs, but I believe part of it to be universal principals.

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Paul Piotrowski says:

April 9, 2009 at 10:01 am

@Nicholas: I couldn’t even imagine actually dropping all beliefs, but I’m sure it would be a very profound experience. The closest I’ve seen to a system of doing that is A Course in Miracles. Instead of eliminating individual beliefs, it slowly takes apart the foundations for all of our pre-assumptions / beliefs.

Very interesting concept with the stillness of the awareness. Another way I like to think of it is dreaming. In our dreams we may be running around in a building, but in “reality” we’re just lying there in bed not moving. It is only the illusion of running, but really our consciousness never moves in a dream. Well, like you mentioned in your comment, what makes us think that “real life” is any different?

When it comes to meaningful conversations, luckily we usually just need to “relax” a few of our beliefs not entirely drop everything. It’s amazing how much easier it is to have a conversation with someone when we just become aware that it’s OK for them to have their own beliefs and values.

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Paul Piotrowski says:

April 9, 2009 at 10:08 am

@Bud: Spirituality is usually the place where we have to be the most aware of the other person’s beliefs. A lot of people are afraid to discuss the topic of Spirituality for fear of offending someone, but it’s a great place to gain a lot of insight into who you are speaking with.

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